Dangling Conversations

Colour commentary on the world we live in

Is true genius a group or individual talent?

Posted 15 Sep, 2005 at 11:55 by blue in /Chatter | Permanent link

Is it just me or do you question the 'public knows best' concept of many of the reality TV shows.

I'm speaking of the 'Choose the next... (Popstar -- Apprentice -- Boy Band -- and most recently -- movie'

It principle it seems like a sound enough concept. Gather a bunch of talent and put it out to the public to choose their favorite... after all, shouldn't the one that gets selected be the most comercially viable because it's the most popular? And in the end of the day, that is what pop music, pop culture etc is about?

The thing is... I don't buy it. I think the really pop stuff comes not from what the public things is cool at the moment, but rather that unique genius that simply does it and manages to swing the mindset of millions.

But just my opinion.

Comments (10 comments so far)

You seem to be using badly defined words here. By "the really pop stuff", are you using "pop" as short for "popular"? Or are you talking about "pop" as a genre adjective?

As to your main point: The price of getting what you want is getting what you once wanted. By going through one of these "audition" shows, you're tailoring yourself to be good at What's Big Now... which may well not be the hot thing by the time the show's over. (At least for the performance shows... not sure why you're bringing "The Apprentice" into it.)

Oh... and no, I don't think commercial viability is what pop culture is all about.

Posted 2005/9/15 12:58:30 by Matt
Isn't this otherwise known as democracy?
Posted 2005/9/15 14:54:04 by Wendy
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." - H.L. Mencken
Posted 2005/9/15 15:30:26 by RobRoy
"The ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination." - Voltaire
Posted 2005/9/16 12:11:48 by Blue
"Genius is born, not paid." - Oscar Wilde

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." -Arthur Schopenhauer

"Towering genius disdains a beaten path." - Abraham Lincoln

Posted 2005/9/16 12:16:36 by
I can find quotes too ;P What I'm hoping for is conversation and debate ;)

You don't think commercial success is what pop culture is about? Perhaps that is true to some extent. Certainly there are a lot of truely 'pop culture' items which did not last. Firefly is working it's way towards pop culture status. I think though, that to the creators of those thing, commercial viability is one of the clearest early indicators of success and regard over all.

What better measure of a pop success would you suggest?

Posted 2005/9/16 12:19:52 by Blue
And yes... :) I suppose it is a democracy. The question is, in essence, is the democracy right?

Well, duh! Of course it is... after a fashion. As Duncan said in his quote... people get what they ask for.

The real question, since the world isn't black and white, would a better 'right' come from a true genius who could lead them down another path, or would that just be one person enforcing his vision on the people?

Posted 2005/9/16 12:22:54 by Blue

What better measure of a pop success would you suggest?

No. It's not a question of "success", unless you're a hard-core memetics type. Popular culture is made up of the films we watch and the music we listen to, and the books we read... but also the things we say, the figures of speech we employ. It's conventional wisdom. It's what we eat and what games we play. It's a sense of the world acquired through interactions with our peers.

It's what we do. It's what we are as a "we".

It is not a commodity to be packaged and sold, although those aspects of it which are amenable to such things are what we've come to think of as pop culture. So metrics of "success" don't actually mean anything, at least if you're talking in monetary terms.

Posted 2005/9/17 21:32:11 by Matt
Now I'm puzzled:

pop3 (pŏp) Informal. adj.
Of or for the general public; popular or popularized

So according to the dictionary something must be popular in order to be considered pop. Seems clear enough. Certainly, it would be something that requires most people to know about it. I suppose one could argue that 'infamous' objects may not be popular, but still well known.

But you say the sucess of something, particularily its commercial success isn't relevant?

"...I don't think commercial viability is what pop..
"It's not a question of "success"...

vi·a·ble (vī'ə-bəl) adj.
Capable of success or continuing effectiveness

I would think that if something isn't capable of success, on a commercial scale among others, means a great deal. Certainly there is a lot of conventional wisdom to support the concept of putting one's money where one's mouth is. Or voting through your pocketbook.

Going back to the defn of pop for a moment... I think it is those who are able to popularize something new, as opposed to those who go with the flow of what is here and now, that show true genius.

Thanks to the Dictionary at http://www.answers.com/

Posted 2005/9/17 22:33:55 by Blue
Ah. The source of the confusion.

Popular = of the people. This is not the same thing as universal; the idea of a popular monoculture is a pretty new one. The adjective "popular" in "popular culture" is used in this sense; contrast with "high culture".

But you say the success of something, particularily its commercial success isn't relevant?

No, I'm saying the concept of success isn't relevant when applied to popular culture, unless by "success" you mean something closer to "survival" in the genetic sense, and that doesn't seem to be what you mean.
Posted 2005/9/18 05:29:47 by Matt
Join the conversation:
 
Name:
URL/Email:
[http://... or mailto:you@wherever] (optional)
Title: (optional)
Comments:
Save my Name and URL/Email for next time
How many copies of the letter U are in the word STRESSFUL ?

Comments are not automatically formatted, so please bring your own HTML. Allowed tags are: P BR EM STRONG A I B UL OL LI.

Hows & Whys
Who we are

Blue has been known to toss a disc around a field from time to time, and thinks that you should as well. He lives either on the Internet or in Toronto, depending on your perspective. Ask him no questions and there's a good chance he'll tell you no lies. [Site]

Brent hosts the box from which we dangle our conversations, for which we are all eternally grateful. Gratitude is most easily expressed in small bills. Formerly a pawn of the Evil Empire (or maybe a Knight), he has gone over the wall and now toils at a small computer game company in Alberta that no one except for ten million gamers has ever heard of. [Site]

Kael occasionally gets called "Mike"; mostly by people who don't know him. He cooks, he cleans, he maintains Unix servers... what else could you ask for? Currently a slave to the Man, by which we mean retail sales. He has secret plans, but we can't tell you about them. In fact, we've already said too much. [Site]

Lisa is a recreational therapist without a cause. She entertains dreams of ruling over an empire of scrapbooking. Has a well-deserved reputation for enthusiasm, common sense, and tiredness. Ask her about her teapots, but don't touch them.

Matt is just this guy, you know? A mathematician by training and a layabout by inclination; he currently has an Urban Commuter Campus in the American Midwest convinced that they should pay him for plying these trades. The designer and administrator of this site, which means in a sense this is all his fault. [Site | E-mail]

Sky is a salesman during the day. At night he doesn't bother: his words are like unto those of a god, and you can agree or you can be wrong. Lives in the World of Warcraft, with a sattelite office in Toronto. Known to play games on occasion.

Wendy has never run away to join the circus, but pursuing graduate work in medical imaging is perhaps just as good. She didn't choose her current abode on the basis of proximity to a Toronto Public Library branch, but we wouldn't put it past her. Married to one of the other authors here, but you'll have to read the archives to find out which one. [Site]

Giving us what-for

Posts that have attracted comments in the last week:

What we talk about
Remembering when
Where's it say that?

Advanced Search